The Incomparable 402

Transcript
00:00:05 Four hundred improve. Hey, everybody to the incomparable. I'm your host Jason Snell as always and we're going to talk about a TV show TIs the season where we talk occasionally about just concluded TV series that are worth talking about. And this time we're gonna talk about a show called counterpart which is available in the US on stars. It is available in many parts of the world on various channels. I think it's a lot of Europe on HBO. It's not in the UK yet. We don't know why. Hopefully it will come there soon. It's it's great. I love it. There's spoiler alert I really love it. And so I wanted to talk about it with my friends on a podcast, and that's what you're listening to right now. That's that's how that story ends up. I just jumped to the end in the end. You liked it so much to the podcast about it. Let me tell you about my dear friends who are here with me now to talk about counterpart. John Syracuse says here. Hello? Which one are you. I'm I, I'm not going to reveal whether I'm wearing the Brown suit or the black suit. I'll just let you imagine that Dan Moore and also here. Hello? Hello. Only one person goes through the podcast at a time. It's the rules. That's how it works. So the internet works moisture Janas here. Hello, the schnapps on all side. Oh yes. Oh, the German. There's so much German in this show, and air can sign is here from across the border crossing in Canada. Hello, I've done the border crossing. Luckily I didn't have to go alone. So let me explain.

00:01:46 Oh, boy. Let me explain. Copley let you explain. Yes, I will what we will talk about counterpart a little bit and we're gonna. And so I'm going to say upfront, there is a fundamental thing in the premise of the show that I imagine would be amazing if you didn't know it was going to happen and and it's revealed in the first ten minutes of the show and it was in all the trailers. But if you're somebody who has heard us say, wow, the comparable cared enough to episode about the show. I should go seek it out and I don't wanna know anything about it go. Now I will tell you go now because I'm going to tell you the basic premise of the show, and then we'll talk about it for a little while as our tradition and then we'll blow the spoiler horn and talk about sort of weird. It ended up at the end of the season and some of the revelations as the story went along, you would say this, this is the pre spoiler torn spoiler. Yeah, this this is if you wish to go completely unspoiled. I think you need to go now because there's something fundamental in the premise that although revealed in episode one is pretty cool if you. I knew nothing about it. So if you just gonna take our word for it and go seek it out, then you could stop and come back later. But I will tell you now counterpart is a show about a guy named Howard silk who's played by J.

00:02:58 K Simmons. Excellent actor. He is working a bureaucratic building in Berlin in at some point, and he's been there for a long time. He tries for promotion and his told basically, no, no, no, you're, you're in interface. It's very mysterious gray building with people. He's sort of man in grace. Ooh, to does this weird job and you don't really understand what he's doing and what it's revealed is suddenly he's brought into a room with a guy with a bag over his head who is who the Vaga is taken off and it's revealed that it's him. He's looking at himself, and this is the premise of the show, which is this building. This nondescript building is actually on a border crossing between parallel earth. Earth's that split from one another. When eastern scientists at the end of the Cold War didn't experiment, and they open this portal. And at that point, the two planets were identical, but since then they have diverged and the this is where information and people can cross back and forth. And all this to say, the Berlin setting is not an accident because this shows basically a Cold War spy show with the difference being that instead of it being iron curtain Soviet side, American side. Instead, you've got these two parallel worlds, but it still more about spycraft with the addition of all the character drama that happens when you're able to ponder the road not taken because of course, many of these characters have counterparts which is the name. I just got the show, although the refer to as the your other in the in the shows that show called counterpart, but never say you're.

00:04:44 Without without spoiling anything. One of the things that I liked about this for season is is how long they, they waited before explicitly telling us some of the major differences between the two SaaS. It's not like fringe also where just getting into where where fringe has a lot of like establishing shots were. It's like now everything is tinted gold and the World Trade Center is still standing. And so now we're in university and then yeah, and there are blimps there is of course a subtle color. They do color shifts is cooler in in the end, the the producers referred to it as alpha and prime, which reminds me of that that futurama joke where fine you can be universe a, we'll be universe one, right? It's like that there's alpha and prime because everybody wants to be number one, I guess. But yeah, it's a little more blue shifted in the other one that we get. The impression is has had a very different world. Whereas the one that we start in is apparent. Essentially our world in terms of current events and things like that, that other world has had a plague. They had a big loss of life in a big mega flu outbreak and there, and therefore they have a different kind of society. We don't even know how different, but that world has changed a lot. They do have funky buildings. There's funky buildings in the background, funky buildings, no smartphones in prince's still alive. These are things we know.

00:06:09 In a heartbreaking moment where somebody tries to smuggle, the latest print, CD the support. I'll even smuggling a CD still have. Yeah, that's right there technology they mentioned at one point there, technology is a little bit behind like that. They haven't been able to figure out certain things they look at smartphones with with ETA. Ration- envy. Yeah, there's that moment where somebody they're having. They're having lunch with people on the other side and somebody checks their phone and then lays it on the table and everybody from the other side is like staring at it and they're like, oh, yeah, I gotta put it in my pocket again, which also gets across the fact that even the smallest amounts of information are considered like super valuable in these sides. Don't trust each other enough to to like give even the barest scrap of information about with life is like on their side, which is a whole thing. Go ching senses data. Yeah, population information, and we don't really know why there's a suggestion that things are tense because of this plague that happened, although it seems like no pointed anybody reveal to the world that there was a parallel. AL a portal to a parallel earth because of perhaps fear of everybody being freaked out there was a duplicate of themselves on the other side, but it's kind of not explained. I suspect that that's baked into the premise of the show and it's going to continue to parcel out that information kind of at a later date. This is show also, I should say that was initially purchased for two seasons, which means that season one was constructed knowing there would be a second season, so they definitely I think we're willing to hold things back. But I like the fact that we as we go it, we only very slowly learn the divergence.

00:07:52 From the first year olds to the single get it filtered through people. Right? Like there are characters who have opinions about why or how certain things went down. But we aren't given a concrete like objective. This is what happened. We are only given theories and in some cases, things that feel like they urge on conspiracy theories. So yeah, we are information our information as well as incomplete and same all the characters on the show. Like inside my suspect the other. The other side also doesn't know whether they did it like, so it's almost as if nobody you know on the plague issue. Right one side. Thanks. All you send that play. The other side is like, did we send that playing like we send? What did we have sent a plague seem like something we would do. I didn't do it. Did you send a play? Which one of us would have been responsible for sending a plague? Do you really think that we would have done that or could have done that and you end up with will maybe you guys did it or maybe just happened and you blamed it on us because you didn't want to responsibility and nobody and nobody who knows is among the set of karaoke. That we're watching here. And what we're watching is the people on the first three floors of this building. That is the office of inner change, which is this UN organization that is secretly this structure for dealing with a border that nobody else in the world knows exists, which is border between two copies of the earth and our main character J K Simmons plus Howard silk.

00:09:16 A lot. A lot of praise rightly so four touchdowns Lonnie playing five characters in orphan black. I, I'm reminded of that performance here J K Simmons who is an outstanding actor. He is playing to versions of himself throughout this show. We meet the first Howard very quickly. We meet the second and for the rest of the show, the show basically is following both Howard's as they move around and do stuff in these worlds. And I, I just wanted to say how amazing I thought his performances because you can. You can tell which how or at least ask, I'll say, I can tell which Howard it is before he says anything like this. They are design of toddy language people's me. Really good. Just the way he holds his face face. He's got all this. He's got all this Brumfield person face to work with molds it, like just sitting there like how he sits, you can just before he opens his mouth before it as anything, yes posture, but also big mushy face of like, no. We do sing along foreign progression of both versions of Howard as we go through the season where you see just how much or just how little being being in the shoes of the other one is changing the more or can change them might affect them. And so I wouldn't say that it gets harder to delineate the two of them as to as to who you're actually watching, but you, you see, you see subtle shifts that are almost imperceptible, but especially if you re watch any part of the season, you just you, you can't miss the incredible precision that he's putting into this.

00:10:52 Yeah. And I was going to say, like you you mentioned or from black, and that's it's a wonderful performance in orphan black, but she. Playing five, six, however, many different characters. This is not playing different characters. This is so much more subtle than that because this is the same character who lived the same life up until thirty years ago and then things diverged in ways that we only start to sort of learn about as the show goes on. So it's it is fundamentally the same person. It's it's Howard, it's Howard silk, but it's a different Howard silk. And yeah, like you guys said, it's it's I would sometimes have trouble determining actually, I wouldn't say trouble. I would say it was my favorite game was every time the scene would shift. I would be like, ooh, where are we know which side are we on now, which characters are we looking at? And if it was if it was a scene that had Howard in it that made it so much more easy like that was like the the, the get out of jail, free card to be like, okay, it's this Howard or it's that Howard. But if he's not in the scene and I don't see the twisty buildings in the background, then it may take me a moment to figure out who it is or what's going on, and they don't. They don't make it easy for you either. Like I know my parents when they watch television have very a lot of difficulty telling which character switch because like they all just look the same to them and that would not be helpful on the show like this color code them, right bad Howard is whereas dark closed Goodhart light close, but very quickly. They of course have to swap that because good Howard has to go bad, how bad our. So they go immediately level healthy, the orphan black thing of like, okay, you're going to pretend to be me pretending to be you like they've already gone to the second level of layer and they're probably season to go one more level on top of that. So you have to watch happy Howard trying to be mean Howard and he's wearing mean Howard's closed, but he's still very confusing, but the performance and you know, if you're paying attention, it's all there, but the performance really does help tuned into that. If you have difficulty telling the difference between two leading an.

00:12:53 You're going to have real difficulty with the show early the same actor. Yeah, the I think that's an interesting point too about switching places thing. I mean, like it's interesting the way they approach that because you have, as you said, you know, Howard alpha gets thrown into Howard prime shoes, and he's trying to struggle in like adapt to how is this guy who was very unlike me, you know, how does he behave? How does he interact with people? And he's really thrown into the deep end because he, he isn't briefed on that basically at all. And then meanwhile, you have Howard prime in Howard health issues, and he should be acting sort of, you know, meek, and he's not interested in that because he's not even bother. Yeah, I love. That's the different mean Howard. I'm gonna be myself deal with it. Even even you guys sing alpha and prime. I'm already confused as to which one is I think of. I think it's just a mean Howard and nice our. That's the key moment I think is they had that scene. I think it's in the pilot might be an episode to where they talk about the divergence because he says, when I was a kid, I did this thing. He says, yeah, I did too because that was before the divergence. And then he says, point, you know, one thing happens. Everything goes wrong mean Howard says and good Howard says or right, and it's where it's like, it feels offended.

00:14:10 All right, could be right. I could be the good one, and this is the end. The thing is like one of them is a much more successful person. Mean dark Howard is a much more successful person. He's gotten the job. He got the job a long time ago that Howard has constantly got rebel. Successful career. He's not a marketing personal successful in his career. Howard seems to be a more successful human being like they'll stay. Howard seems to is keeping seems to seems to everybody's complicated though, and this is I think one of the nice things about the show is the show has an opinion, and the show's opinion is not just, oh, but for that moment that I made that fateful decision and led led me down a path where I became a completely different person, right? Which is, which is an interesting point show. One of the things I love about the show is that it takes a science fictional premise and uses it to explore human beings and how we live our lives and who we are because with the science fiction premise, you can see what happened when somebody took made different decisions than you. But the show goes further than that, right? The show posits with Howard having to switch roles with his other for spy reasons which we haven't even gotten to their spy reasons why there's. Christie's and things are being investigated and basically dark Howard needs to spend time on our side. So light Howard has to go back to the other side pretending to be dark Howard so that the real dark Howard can do spy stuff. But the show is bold enough to say, when you walk in the other person's shoes, you realize you're actually not that different like different.

00:15:49 All side. You me. And I think that's really a a smart clever thing moisture saluted to it that this show does, which is, which is say the more time that the Howard spend in the other one's shoes, their aspects of their lives that they start to realize. I wouldn't even say it's a simple as they start to become like the other one because that's not entirely true. Howard are Howard goes to the other side and finds out that on that side that he and his wife had a daughter, which they did not have they lost the baby on their side and he he does more in a day to establish connection with his family than the other Howard has done in all of that time. So they're not the same person, but I like how they say it's not just you. It's also the world around you. The changes you and the show does that is bold enough to do that. This episode of the incomparable is brought to you by simple contacts. You know, it's pretty great one. An app takes a really. Owing tiresome task and makes it easy and simple contacts. Does this? What does it do? It's the easy way for you to renew your contact lens prescription and order new lenses. You can reorder your contacts from anywhere as long as you've got your mobile device with you in just minutes. You complete their online. Self guided vision test takes less than five minutes from wherever you are right now. You don't have to go into the doctor's office. You don't have to wait around just to get a new set of your contact lenses. You can order your favorite brands right from the website or app. Simple context offers all of the different lens brands. You love. They have all the options stigmatism multi focal lenses colored lenses and more. You can order exactly what you need right from the palm of your hand, wherever you want. The vision test is twenty dollars just for comparison. An appointment without insurance could cost you for two hundred dollars. Simple contacts can save you money and time. Now, simple contacts is not a replacement for your periodic full. I health.

00:17:53 Exam. Simple context will check that your current prescription still helps you see twenty twenty and will renew your lens is based on that prescription. They're not writing completely new prescriptions or examining your eye health. This is about giving a new set of your existing contact lenses. I use simple context on my phone, super easy to do. They had my contact lens brain which I was really surprised by because it is a larger focal with than you usually have and it's got a stigmatism correction in it. There's lots of weird things with my eyes and they had, I just put in the number and they're like, yeah, we got that. And we've got your prescription was not a problem. And if anything red flags, if they say, well, well, you've got this issue. They send you to your doctor. They say, you need to not do this. You need to go back to your doctor. If you have anything that needs to be checked out as a listener to the comparable, you can say, thirty dollars off your contact lenses. Just go to simple contacts dot com. Slash Snell or use code Snell at checkout for thirty percent off. Thank you. Two simple context for supporting the incomparable. The emotional convergence happens in shades of gray. It's not immediate instantaneous. In terms of the the two of them approaching parts of the others, emotional stability that they just have not had has not been a part of their personality, and that's, that's, that's, that's that salty and where I started to see it happen was where the easy choice would have been in the scripting in the acting to to very easily jump to, oh, this is this Howard learning how this Howard feels this feel. And this is this hour d- learns how to feel this feel of the other Howard and they don't. They don't remotely go for any of the easy answers or paths through these two individuals stay very distinct and they start the drift toward one another, but not in simpler, easy ways, which is the sounds like the most complex baffling thing to say. So I feel bad for anybody who hasn't watched the show.

00:19:53 Because I think that gobbledygook only make sense or even a little bit of sense to people who have a pitch of the show is that they're not the hammer on a lot. They're not actually different. That's that's the key, right? It's not as if like I'm becoming more like you and your becoming like me. The key is we have always been the same person, especially for doubts like I'm mostly by this like by the time you're that age, the world diverge already adults. You're not really going to change that much your circumstances. It's almost like they're in a certain mood. He's been in a foul mood as a planet is terrible, but like. Quote, unquote, nice Howard. You learned that his his life was not as his marriage and has life was not as perfect as it seemed to be episodes like one into like, oh, there's the mean our, he screwed up his life and this Howard had loving wife and perfect family. Same thing with two. Emily's one, unconscious, not they seem so very different, not. They're not that different. That's that's his wife who I should mention just because we have mentioned it so far in in our world, Howard's wife is in a coma because she was hit by a car and we see him and he's going to the hospital and bring her flowers and all of those things and reading to her. And when we meet the other Howard, he says, oh, well, my Emily died of cancer along time ago. But the truth is no, she's she's alive. We see that at the end of the first episode she is alive and well and playing the spy game just as hard as Howard is. And just as hard as the other Emily was kind kinda new and willing to just choke it down. That's different life. The paint that you're on successful at your job and you and you grudgingly sort of.

00:21:30 Learn to live with the fact that your wife is lying to you and cheating on you. That's not great. What's what's interesting to me about this aspect of it is that we've talked a lot about Simmons performance. We see Emily as we just mentioned that there are two of them, but since Emily from nice Howard's world is in a coma, we don't really see much interaction with her. And as a result, kinda Howard is the only person that we actually really get a picture of on both sides. We get fleeting pictures of some other people in sort of more minor characters, but none of our other major characters. We never see their others, which is an interesting choice as well. Because again, coming from something like fringe, where some of the delight in that series was about like, oh, let's see the other version of this person how different they are from our, you know, our version. We don't really get that here as much. And I think that's an interesting choice. I'm kind of curious to see how they handle that going into season two because I think you know there is an element of that. We are exploring very much through the lens of Howard butt. Might be interesting if it gets broader than that while they're doing a lot of other killing on the show. So that's the reason of others. Anytime one of them appear kills the other one pretty quickly. Well, we get allusions to write like Aldridge who wanna talk about at some point, tastic character similar conversation about his other and the sort of relationship they had sort of.

00:22:56 Yeah, I, I think interesting interesting that we get that perspective, but really only one side of it. Dune bringing up season two brings me back to Jason mentioning. You know, the show is picked up as a one season to season show right from the beginning. And one of the things that also in the in the fifty thousand feet view sense that I like about it is I feel like if all they do is two seasons, there is a complete story that I'm gonna get by the end of season. Two. There is some season one, finale stuff that feels like, okay, we need to end the season here, but that doesn't feel like it's needlessly decompressing. Things. And I feel I feel like we, we are not having any of our time wasted at all so far. And I have no reason to believe that we can expect them to, you know, their heels and go, we're good. We did well, we did fine and and give us anything like that in season two and bringing up a Aldridge that the way that I do in the at the two earths is there's there's there's first world there's I earth and second or at I is the first one we see you were nice. Our is and Secondly is is were mean Howard is from. And I've been wondering and maybe my memories failing, but we haven't seen first Aldridge have we only see only for Alday and he says, he says his his other head back Liz driven mad basically, and that he he participated in it because he seems to have gotten his what like his wife or his girlfriend and her other, and they now go live. Now they live together. It's very likely that I introduced terminology and then I confuse myself about it. It's like siblings, right?

00:24:30 So some siblings like care for each other and potatoes with each other, whatever. And other siblings are competitive, went to Kim competitively. Both were spymasters and he was. He was like, I'm going to be the best one base and he basically won the spy game with his other felt bad when he had to kill him at the end very kill kill his love interest that he sent her whatever is like, what else could I do? I can't. You know if word got out that my other was so easily manipulated. They'd be like, that's the same person as you. So you're fired. I wanted to mention. We mentioned Lydia Williams is Emily really interesting character who is in fleetingly in the pilot, but is in the rest of the show a lot on the other side on the second world in mois is terminology. I had to say, I knew that like I felt like that coming right because I'm like, you don't cast Livia Williams have a comb season. That's ridiculous. Exactly, right. But this that's into the show is that can have her lying in a coma and have her be upright and moving around on the other side, which also because we were told that she. Died, shows you that not everything that that second Howard tells us is true apps. Nothing that he tells you perhaps we haven't. We haven't seen secondary's Emily's boss played by Kenneth Choi in Verster yet either. I know there's this and there's a question about like since so many more people died in the second world. It may be that, you know, it's not just a universe and Star Trek where everybody, everybody's got a double. I think the impression here is that there are different people. A lot of the people are different on the other side because the they're, they're like Richard Schiff, for example, from the west wing who plays a an important character. He's the director of diplomacy on first earth. We see in a later episode that I'm not gonna detail quite yet because we'll find out the spoil horn, but we see that he died of in the plague on the other world. And I imagine a lot of staff members didn't make it, and that's why the staff is different on the other side while and they also mentioned, I think, specifically according to compete anyways, who knows that the his job is the same as Peter quails.

00:26:30 On on I. So you'll have all these people like as as Jason pointed out, having the plague means we have very different pool of people to pull from. So you probably explains why there are fewer versions where we have both to the same person involved on both sides. Well, even even departments that are named the same on each side, do different things right? Because they're not because they're, you know, they're different to a certain degree. Anyway, we mentioned Peter quail. So Harry Lloyd. A lot of stuff. He's Peter quail, we he's introduced at the beginning. He's a key character. Fascinating character kind of hate him. Do you need someone to play a sniveling kind of morally compromised character? Loyd is your man. The kind of person is easily summed up his desk. Yup, he is. He is. He's got the job. You get the impression. He's got the job because his father-in-law, the fermented Richard Schiff kinda got him the job he is unpleasant to be around. He's he tries to pull rank on cheats on his wife. Oh yeah. We see that very early on. He's cheating on his wife. He's got his prostitutes and things like that. He is not necessarily good at his job. I think we see that pretty pretty early on. And and yeah, he all Drake, I think is sort of dismissive to him, but he realizes that he's a necessary evil, but Aldridge seems to be the one who actually is doing all the work in terms of spycraft and having people shot or protecting people from being shot or things like that. And and yet he's one of our key characters. So through Harry Lloyd, we get to see other aspects of this world and and but he's, he's just, yeah, he's he's not to be trusted and not necessarily good at what he's doing. And he's kind of sniffling and it's fascinating. It's fascinating enjoyed watching him. Sometimes those characters really turn me off, but I really enjoyed that character because he so compromised in so many different ways, deeper and deeper as the whole season goes. And just realizing like even he can realize how over his head, everything has gotten right like, and that watching and try to get out of that is.

00:28:37 Fascinating. I found sort of a great point of view character because a lot of this is you know, deep twisty, spycraft and I don't know what's going on, and she's very clearly. He has no idea what's happening around him. He's just being led around a little like a cute little puppy and just sort of like going from place to place from meeting to meeting, not having any idea what's happening until after the fact. And that's exactly how I felt. So by the end of the season, I was like, I was totally on board with his character because he was me it's useful, terrible state. Ability to him, though. Sure. He's not. He's not that you love to hate because you feel you seem like he mostly means well, but he, he shouldn't have this job. That's clear and but he kind of knows he shouldn't have it and he's trying to do a good job. He's just inexperienced and he's not the greatest person, but he doesn't seem like he has likability that made me. Not be annoyed by watching him like, I can't wait for this kind of those early routing which makes the end of the season. You know, all the more hard to deal with right when push comes to shove, well, he he has. He has a narrative arc that feels like screw says, he's after hours stretch to the length of season television where just, you know, I hate him at first, but he is going through such a horrendous of sequential events that I cannot help, but not like him, but hate him less as the season progresses. Because if I were in his position, I don't know what I would do, and I think it becomes rather apparent that it wouldn't necessarily matter what I would do or that he could have got to take an easy way like he could have said, well, whatever. I got the job because of my father-in-law and the easy way out is I don't care about anything. You see that character a lot or it's like whatever. I don't care about your concerns, whatever main character of the show. I'm just going to sit here and do.

00:30:35 But he does care. He tries to do his job. He tries to say, okay, we only know about this. We're going to solve this problem and he's not a quip to do that, but he could've taken the easy way out and he didn't. He's a very bad director of strategy. Let's just put it that way like that is the wrong job for him to be director of strategy, and you want directing your strategy or any strategy, or even playing stratego a character who feels very much in the first episode like a one off character who ends up being. And I read an article that said, originally, the plan was to kill her off after a few episodes and the the way the story goes, the women in the writer's room said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to keep her. The whole season is Baldwin the assassin goodness, and, and so so great. So Baldwin an assassin sent from the other side to our side a, we, we see her. She's got like a wig on. She kills a bunch of people in the cold open before the show even starts, and she's got. Before she comes over the other side. She kills like a whole bunch of cops, and then she crosses over the other side. She's been. She. She tries to kill Emily silk in in the hospital on our side and is and is wounded but gets away. And then for the rest of the season, we see her interacting with other people. She, she is very much tied into these spycraft spycraft aspect. She has been sent here on a mission by shadowy group to assassinate people and to affect the the deaths of people on our side. But but one of the more fascinating things that happens is she seeks out her other. So that was a good opportunity for the show to explore somebody somebody in their other, and they share, of course a a horrible traumatic childhood. But while Baldwin is a an assassin, the other Nadia by her real name is a is a classical musician who plays and is seemingly successful, although still has a lot of issues and.

00:32:40 She gets her other in a situation where she is killed. It's the thing to do Howard Howard tries to stop it good Howard, and it does not work out. And then she kind of goes from there cheese inches invested in saving her because I feel like, geez, she views it as like the the innocent version of herself. Right, right. As the one like, how did you do it? How did you come back from that, right? Yeah, there's a, there's a part of her has been like kept safe from the thing that you know not ending up as an assassin. So yeah. Interesting. I think it is interesting dynamic there. The thing broadly that I liked so much about the character is that in so many other shows so many other movies, this character is a guy a straight guy with female romantic love interests, and they're just they're just a scarred damaged. You know, man living a hard life, killing people and it isn't. It isn't something that feels like a stunt so much as this is just. Actor with a with a fully lived experience back story, and this is who they are, and they have lived a very tough live in a very tough place and they, they are just getting their first breath of fresh air of a world where there are possibilities that hasn't been ravaged by plague, and just just their curiosity ends up causing all kinds of havoc for for their other leading to the death as well as just just playing not not working out terribly well and just continuing to make them feel like everything they touch is going to be a disaster. I just particularly liked that it wasn't. It wasn't in any way showy sort of thing. It was just, this is the character, and this is who they are not to score score quota points or anything like that. Just really well written real release thoroughly and textured, and I'm so glad the women writers.

00:34:39 Room where like, Nope, Nope, she's not going anywhere. She's awesome. We're not getting rid of her because that I mean that in and of itself is a trope is an interesting complex female character that just has to die. She provides her own counterpart to Howard in that. She also has this issue with with the road not taken and the shared past and her other gets killed, but she's in our world and she's trying to sort of decide what kind of life she wants to live and the our world is kind of changing her or is it? There's a question she still sent out on missions to kill people, but she's also like she strikes up a conversation with a barista. Is that what she is? She a bartender. She's looking for love and all their own places. This assess. Yeah, yeah, that's that's true. And well, yeah, because there's, there's another character that she also has has sex with and then almost gets killed herself because they're gonna counter assassinate her. It's a whole there spycraft and what we're saying. She has major trust issues, well-founded. When she puts a gun under her bed. It's not paranoid, but but a great character and a great performance. And I was surprised because yeah, and the pilot, she sorta reads, as a one off. You know, spectacular assassin who's going to come in and be fought off, and that'll be that. And instead she has a fascinating journey in our world. She gets shot in the face of the I spend the whole season just looking at the side of her mouth a, he'll.

00:36:08 Really hurt every time she eats every time she opens her mouth. It's kind of like the cut in the shape, big shaving cut in Fargo, you know, or or he's got the big cut on his cheek. It's the same type of thing. That's hard. I think that's why they didn't intend for her to. That's why. Come back wouldn't have done that if they had to make it up in every episode after that, but they did a good look for. I don't think I'll say about her as if if she was she was gender reverse, and it was the guy thing like whenever whenever there's a super assassin who it turns out is treated as disposable tool of the puppet masters that malice Asan comes back and you know, and gets revenge on the masters and so far that hasn't happened with Jason Bourne south thing. She's a trained assassin. She thinks she's doing a job, but what turns out is like you're just tool cease to be useful. We will have you killed and you know, and she survives it because she's a super assassin, right? But instead of seeking retribution, she's like, I still just want the money. Killed people. You pay me the money, right? Pragmatic. Yeah, she's not. She's not like now I must avenge you and take down the whole organization. I just wanna get paid. Well, I mean, there is there is an element of personal that comes in towards the end of the season two, but like and that is interesting because we're saying where where does that character then go? Is that a change in direction for them or are they, you know, it was that a one off I was like the fact that she is hard to kill, not because she's a superhero, but because she plans ahead like Shans she like she senses just like the audience when it may be likely that she's going to be killed and she's ready for the mold of male action heroes that she's a divergence from they. They have this at the point that it's been parodied so many times I can't count now where they are unkillable. They have this amazing ability to dodge bullets. They they only barely ever get hurt or grazed or something like that. And she really takes gigantic amount of punishment and.

00:38:09 Keeps going. And she does feel kill Bill. She does feel like she could be that character dies in a few episodes. Maybe she dies. If you up into season two, I don't know, but they, they managed to iterative on on, you know, action anti hero tropes in a way that doesn't feel like they're doing it specifically to diverge from them. But instead they're, they just have a another real piece on the chessboard that could be under threat at anytime. I also potato like the fact that she's, you know, she she starts out with his job as the the super killer and then you know, sheet of gets tossed away. So for a while, she sort of just adrift on our side and I really enjoyed watching her experience our world through the eyes of somebody who grew up in on the other side. And I think that that was to me sort of the emotional grounding of the show because yeah, it's wonderful to see J K Simmons and his wife in like the the differences in the way that those characters interact. But I really. Seeing somebody who just had it awful. They're side come over here and like open their eyes and see, see what it's like over here. People like don't wear. Don't wear masks and touch each other and go out and stuff doesn't do any more right or run the other school kids come over a contrast between other people seeing this world and how disgusted they are at the same world. And it is so different for that. But one one set of kids was trained to think this is decadent and evil, and these are the people who are responsible for all the bad things that have ever happened in your life.

00:39:42 Right? And she comes home and she's just like she's talking and she said about her assassin thing going bad, but then you know, she meets a cute girl at the coffee shop and stars a relationship I seem she came from the same place was trained in the same way just that that she broke out of that mold a little bit because you get there is the one, the one guy who just wanted to see the world and he, he leaves this apartment. He's not supposed to leave just to look around and you can see it in his eyes. He's pretty impressed by it. And when. He says it's disgusting, he doesn't mean yes, it's it's the again. This is the Cold War analog here, right? Which is. There's a whole show called the Americans. That's kind of about that anyway. Okay. I'm going to fire up the spoiler horn officially here because I want to talk about some of the twists that happened in this show. And so if you've listened this long and now you're intrigued, I'm going to spare you if you stop now somebody spoiled, like seventeen spoil. The few things I feel like he things that happen. We're going to. We're gonna hold those and, and now we're gonna talk about them so you can. This is your last chance to flee. All right. So, yeah, Harry LLoyd's wife is revealed in, I think maybe episode six at the end as being the exact same character who is Baldwin's spymaster from the shadowy arenas -ation on the other side. And that was a great and most importantly, whose character was well established by that point as being incredibly deceptive.

00:41:12 The whole deal with the relationship with Baldwin, you believe it and yet and you think she's not gonna kill Baldwin, they have a relationship? No, he's totally going to kill ball bunch. She's literally told by the by the really oily just nasty ambassador or whenever he is. Unpleasant person who's just because he's so gross that that she needs to use her personal leverage on Baldwin to get her to do what they want and she and he's basically saying, she's totally into you. You need to take advantage of that. And so she goes and they have sex, and, but you think she's not going to do it, at least I did. I thought she was like, well, she she can't bring herself to because they have going to do it onto trusting. I guess she takes her gun leaves the door unlocked and sends in the assassin to clean up the problem by killing Baldwin. And that doesn't work because she's a supercenter. My favorite thing is that she the only reason she survivor. She's because she was good at throwing her bag. You get one bag. You miss that bag. You're dead. I was a really good actions into the way that that fight is well choreographed. And so she's established as as cold hearted as just like the worst kind of cold hearted spy who can make you believe anything, but then we'll kill you the nothing no relation Israel, which is so important later because the audience and Peter all asking and everyone's asking even Baltin, throws it interface. Is there any part of you that's real as viewer? I still can't tell because every time I see her, I'm screaming don't believe anything any emotion she shows, but she's just that good at her job reveal is that that hair LLoyd's character Peter comes home and she's sitting on the floor holding their baby, and she says, oh, Hello, Hello, darling, or whatever. She says, and you had them when we like, and it's just.

00:43:02 That's coming about like two or three minutes before they're like I was putting the pieces sinking, oh my God, my God concentration of characters because they kept make Sangley like they lots of. Yeah. What about the volumes rose interface, what this life you've made for yourself as any of that real right? And and Peter talks about his life, but we never seem. And if you paying attention the kind of like in Westworld as if you go back and look, she standing in the same house many times right. But it could be any house Donal house look the same. It's the same. German, Jerry German. So that's great. And then and then immediately the next episode is her origin story, which was a mind blowing up a soda, and that's the school kids that you mentioned earlier where they have. They have a school of kids who are their job is to learn about their others and about the history of the world on the other side so that they can be used if the opportunity arises to basically they'll send an assassin over, they'll kill their other and they'll insert them in their others lives so that they can be used as a sleeper agent, which is just and there's indoctrination and we see some of the people who are running this project, and it's all ultimately part of the Alexander pope who was played by Steven Ray who I was going to talk about earlier, but really, what can I say? He's in it for awhile. He's great and then good Howard beats him to death.

00:44:21 So that's that need never expect. Good. How're. Yeah. The moment for me in the Clare background. So that gets me. And I suspect Jason guy knows we're going with this too, is like the where I was like, oh my God, it's Mark voor coz again from the. Goes against, he's basically the, you know that we learn, they Claire everything that happens to Claire, the original Claire on the earth one or whatever you wanna call it has to have you tune. Break break. Away because she's got be member member. The experience of felt like to break her leg strange could really remember the problem, but one. John, they're crazy people raising children as sleeper agent, the sleeper agent thing. I think that's a good plan, but this is kind of the thing about this John or John's counterpart. The thing about the overall, it's all John series that kept me on my toes because at first I thought this doesn't make any sense, but then they kind of redeemed it at the end is look at the time scales here. These kids are in these in the school. Like we see her when she's a little girl, getting her legs broken, which I continue to say getting them broken intentionally by doctors different than a skiing accident. But anyway. And she's there for what ten years, right? At least at least ten years. This is a long term plan, and that's where the whole second last second. The last episode like you spend like a decade training these kids, so you could shoot a bunch of people briefly with Michaud that's that's clearly plan, isn't their plan, but what the hell is that?

00:46:01 Well, so in the next to last episode, following the great tradition of other shows like the wire and having kind of the big explosive moment happen in the next to last episode. Instead of the last episode, there is this plan where these three sleeper agents go in with guns and start shooting up the the office of inner change on our side. But if you watch it, I watch that scene two or three times. If you watch it, they only shoot very specific people and other people. So they're not even not even. And the thing is once they're in place like. To get maximum value, leave them, they're they're in good positions to get lots of information. But no, we're gonna spend. We're going to spend our ten year long long-term, super-duper project that we put so much into those three people. Anyway, there was a whole school of kids who knows obviously, but also I know where the other kids are there and the. Dead in the basement. It's true. That was so bunch of people that were the same age as Claire. They are probably already someplace as well. There's a lot about the show that is really dark including the fact that we just laughed about a bunch of children dead. That is one, and of course good Howard finds them because they're, they're down there Emily and her boyfriend was the Ian. Are there. And then of course they bring good Howard because he's tagging along and he is he finds the the kids down in the basement. It's you know that that's what you know that that's what they did because they like they round the kids up when they know they've been burned and they need to get out of there. And you know that these are the kind of people who break somebody's leg and keep them awake so that they could feel it. They're not going to take the kids on the field trip to the zoo, right? And they and even adults give each other all like give each other, the pills. That's that's pretty grim, but you don't know from Graham because at that point they already killed all the children except for except for our teacher who makes away his pills. Everybody but me takes pills. You didn't see that part of the final was just caught me and probably, yeah, like, yeah, that was the plan all along. You should definitely come with me.

00:48:06 Yeah. Yeah. So that that is a bigger plan and we don't know what it is, but obviously, this is this is some aspect of it and if pope knew what it was well, he's not talking, he's he's, no, that's that's one of those genuine, you know, moments of fascination or a well, I don't think anybody expected that to happen. They killed a lot of people the end of season. What one-season contracts? Yeah, that's what the people who are the most famous pope is not a famous actor that I'm Steven. He is a famous. The most famous show so they couldn't keep him for more than one season. I think maybe they signed him to a one-season deal and decided they were going to kill them off and all surprise me even more surprised me. I think the headmistress of the of the evil sleeper agent society may be reappearing in season two, two of these. So so pope, I you guys who you're maybe paying better attention than than I did. Is there a first earth pope and the other one is that all Drik? I knew that I knew he was a goner once he knew too much. Yeah. Like this guy's dead. This guy's dead. There's no way he's once. He's the last one who knows that, right? Yeah, there was a clear moment where it's like, yeah, there's no way. Well, there's there's a scene. There's also seen where the guy. What does Cyrus, who who is who has been kind of like the muscle, the whole season where he, he starts to walk toward petering Clara's house because he's going to take out Claire. And I'm like, I like that guy. Now.

00:49:38 Classic henchman everything. Right knows everything guys like come on. Really. This is the bad guy, no one, no one really wants to listen to write it down or tell tell friend before you go into the house. The one thing that I didn't quite get, maybe you guys have opinions on this from the last episode is Aldridge basically tells them like when they go to the hospital and he figures, you know, the other Howard is going to show up there. And he basically is he's looking for Baldwin mainly, but like physically kill the other Howard to while you're at it, and I couldn't quite figure out his rationale other than it was untouched eighty. But like he didn't really seem to have. They were kind of not allies at least like not enemies. He feels. I think he lost trust in him because remember they don't ever really trust him. And now the thing just been out of control, I think they suspect that he's just part of it and better to just kill everybody from the other side, you know? Yeah. Remember what remember what other Howard's job is. He's like, counter-terrorism he's, you know, his exactly the type of person who you would send over there on attentional mission to pretend owed I'm over here to help you really, but not. Right. So it just once things start going sideways. Why table? Clean, you know, we can't trust any. Anymore. So another thing that happens in the last episode that I wanted to talk about, because I think this is this is one of the key season two ideas, and it's something that they withheld from us purposefully. There are lots of mentions of what's happening on the fourth floor. Like we there there, they're people like Howard who are in interface. They go into little rooms and read codes and do stuff that who knows what that's for. It's to check the divergence or it's to check who knows what it's for again, but then their strategy Unigate.

00:51:15 Yeah, in code that no one. Right. Asked him, I would know that nobody knows it, but we have diplomacy. We have a strategy. We housekeeping, which of course is basically killing people spycraft. And then there's the fourth floor which has management and about management, but we never see management and there's a moment in the last episode where they say to Peter, who they give lots of credit to. It's a beautiful moment talk about failing upward right that that it's like you're the only one who saw this coming and warned us about it. Everybody else didn't. You know, we love you. We're gonna put you in charge of finding out who the sleeper agents are. Okay. It's his wife and he knows he's not saying that's amazing, but then they like management's going to talk to us. This is great. I've always wanted to see the fourth floor and they're like. Go to this conference room and a weirdo with a box is going to come in and out of dune. What headphones on webcam a webcam, little three sixty webcam and he's anti webcam to like, tell you through Barbara Martin up, like twelve monkeys. Gonna talk in his ears. It's. Okay. All right. My with my well upstairs says, you did a very good job Peter, and that is fascinating also by the way, a great scene because in the same room in the other earth, yeah, different collection of people is having the same meeting with different guy, but the same hardware talking to their management or is it the same? But this is the this is the mystery is like, well, who's running this office of inner change? Why don't they? Why aren't they seen? Why do they communicate in a strange way? And ultimately, both of the management's say, just leave the one of the shooters who escaped to the border and his dying. They're just leave them there that the they come to the same response, Intel, both sides that. And so that that I think is fascinating because it leads us with lots of questions for season two about the origin of this whole organization and who's.

00:53:26 Actually running it and why it's a secret and what their goals are, and it makes you start to wonder at least, I, I started to wonder, maybe this project, indigo, Alexander pope stuff is not an attack on guys. It's an attack on this system that is holding the border and maybe, yeah, maybe they aren't the bad guys after all, even though they're killed. A lot of kids are are the theory. My girlfriend, I were banding back and forth. As we watch this was like, what if that first science experiment, they created this? Like what? If these are the scientists observing the control in the prime and the experiment? Right? Like we've diverged these things. Let's see how it reacts. Now we can actually have an end of better than one on these. There was a plague. Let's to that if, for example. Yeah, the my head cannon so far, they season one episode one. They did have the exchange where Howard is our audience proxy who learns well, there's two worlds silly about this. Who knows about it presidents, you know, whatever. And Peter's like, Peter probably doesn't know. But B wants to look like, you know stuff and he's like, it's complicated. No. All right. So what I think is the the divergence happened and when the divergence happens, there's a small number of people who know about it and their counterparts who presumably they they would have met each other. 'cause they were both there right.

00:54:53 Right. All right. At that point, that core group is the perfect group to sit down on that day and say, here's what we're going to do. We are going to collectively all of us, everyone in this room, both sides of world. We're going to manage this together because we are some paddock, oh, we are we, we are the same person to this point and we'll have all the structure and so on and so forth. If you're going to have one group, if it's not a computer, if it's not an or something, if you're going to have one group that's the in group these they knew they knew before anybody. They were the same. They had not diverged. They could be controlling both sides. What if there weren't even two of them? I mean, if you were like assuming that sort of, you know, we've got that corridor right in the thing we were trying to figure out the entire season is they have a rule about only one person can go in there at a time, right? We don't know if that rule is customary or if there is something like physically preventing. I think we learned they answer to that at the end. That's right. We, they go, drag him out and there's a suggestion of that. But like I'm wondering if like if you were at ground zero of the split, what if there was only one. Of you as you were ground zero, but it's to everybody else but, but anyway, that's definitely the in group. If there's going to be. Because at that point you can say, we are in a position now to control both of these worlds to our own ends and maybe doing it for good reasons. Like this is the only way to keep the peace. We have to magic ourself and we have to establish this whole fourth-floor thing and so forth.

00:56:22 The other thing I like about the crossing is I mean, I guess for budgetary reasons, there's no special effects like it's not Stargate. Right, right. So it's just it's just a hallway. There's not even a ripple shimmer. There's no sound effect is just a thing that you walk through and it's kinda crappy, right? It's it's basically like like ugly basement. A boring through the subway. It's like some weird tourist attraction that's on like maximum smart ceremony involving doors stuff. But those my impression, those doors have nothing to do with the crossing Krajina crossing the underpass kind of surgury kind of place like in like in the third and or man, and and it's it's, it's designed to be kind of a mirror. So the ideas you go, the steps down and then the steps are coming back up and that obviously is. So it's implied that you know, these are the same thing connected, but there's there's no special special effects at all. The thing is the world aren't actually mirrors from child. But anyway, the reason I like that there are no effects is because to me, it feels like at least in my personal experiences, but feels dream like when I was when I have dreams about things like this special effects in the dream, right? It's kind of like I wish time travel's more matter of fact, crossing worlds completely matter-of-fact, like it's just a thing like you just go down there and you walk or maybe like more like a fantasy thing. They might have some special. Thanks to that. It seems creepy or when there is nothing.

00:57:45 Where there is you don't get a feeling you don't see a mirror image of yourself coming in. There is no sound. There's no flash of light. There's no sparkle there's no tangling just wall swell of music. It's it's much it's much stranger and weirder and more data settling and feels like it would feel like you would imagine real-life to World War connector one point. Why would the connection be any different than the other thing but also makes me think. All right. So that's the crossing for actual war between the world's here. There's only so much you can get through. It's very difficult to actually wage war on any kind of foot because once someone controls that bottleneck, they would just flat out forever, but is it is I don't think you can actually actually know that that's the only place thing. Did they set that up specifically in order to to make it that way to sort of shut down because we know that there are rooms upon rooms upon rooms where you could have people sitting across from each other talking to each other. So is it possible to break the last of all those people come. Well, that's the implication. I mean to me, that was always the question of how they were smuggling people across to right, because if you can only say one percent time, it's like the most surveilled crossing anywhere in the world. It's easy to pay off people to get them to turn off the cameras, though its Checkpoint Charlie on area. One prince, CD, we'll get you twenty people through there. I do like that. They polaroid everybody when they go through presents to figure out when they come back. If they're the same person, it's not a great system system. Well, we don't know the post uses for four, four, maybe open open plan. And by that, I mean, like really open plan, you just between both the world's. But I wanted to say about the borders unless they're natural unless it's like a river or something like that. Borders are completely artificial, right? They are just there's a town in Maine or whatever that's half in Canada and half in the US and like it's just a town. And then everything that happens is our construct. It's laid upon it. And that's the truth of the crossing the crossing.

00:59:47 Is is I mean it's a little creepy, but it's just a a room, but both sides have built a whole set of structures and doors with sliding doors with lights that go from reds gopher summaries exactly is exactly Moi's think you just said Checkpoint Charlie, that's exactly what controls it's totally the Berlin Wall, you know, all the checkpoints and everything. But I think it's interesting because we get that at the end of this season. Like one of the last thing that happens is our first original universe or whatever closes its doors. Yes, basically cutting everything off in saying like, you know, we're not dealing with the other, the other universe. And that's like that's a big deal, right? Because at that point that hasn't happened yet, but that's a diplomatic thing. Like just close the door. You've got to think that that was that where they wanted that to happen, they wanted to exactly that was the point of actually closing the doors. Like from a diplomatic standpoint, it's like a declaration of if not more than. Like, I don't like you, but practically speaking, if one side besides that, they're going to attack, they can blow up that door and they will be finding other in this twenty square foot crossing sure until all of those rooms in the an interface places. Those people don't call them to the Trump is entirely because because we see we see Howard. The very first step aside, go to work. He doesn't. He doesn't go through the crossing over there, but they're coming to him. I don't think that's ever shown. I think this is the question is that maybe with the live, the lights on those doors to may be that the crossing is across section of the building and that those booths are also on the can't get order, but you can't cross there.

01:01:32 Yeah. Or you're not supposed to cross that would explain the management thing too because we do have that one episode where you see Howard talking to Howard in the interface room, and neither one of those Howard's goes through the crossing to get their point just had to bribe people well, and that was sort of one of the theories. I was wondering about when we end in the end of episode nine with our terrorist lying on the border, I thought maybe they would. He was. He's wearing like a bag as God is. He gonna blow up the connection disrupt the. Actioner question is why was he trying to go back? He was trying to die in the middle. He could've died anywhere like these if their job was to shoot up the office and apparently take nothing and plant, no listening devices are doing anything. They're shooting up maybe presumably to precipitate this event that will cost. Kill specific people. Yeah, right. But, but I just wanted to get back to his side. He just wanted to die on the middle. No, I think he was supposed to go to the middle. I don't think he was supposed to die. I don't know that he expected to get shot. I think he was just supposed to sit there and wait for somebody to claim him. And that's when the diplomacy I'll have that was part of their plan, I think was if you can, if you can't escape, here's what you do. You go to the middle and you sit down and you caused a diplomatic incident even worse than the one that you're going to cause by killing all of these people. And I think I think that will probably be explained next season, but that was my gut feeling too was that this is all part of the plan, and he just happened to be like dying. But that was kind of part of the plan to do that. If not, then it was just kind of poetic, that's as far as he could get, and then he couldn't go any further. It was just dying on the border who claims this body died on the border. I know.

01:03:12 I don't know something we. We mentioned the Polaroid's a second ago and just to to to throw something in there. I feel like it's one of it's an example of something I when I thought about it, I really enjoyed and I wish we'd seen a bit more of season one where when it comes to both sides being on par with each other for their their, their technological detection side of things. The choice of is is probably not not what I would like. But that's the most technologically advanced photographic technology that both sides had. Right. So I feel like there could be a bit more done with that. I mean, we saw it in them both having the same weird. You know, Frank Roberts, dune style conference, call hardware when they have to change all their clothes in the first episode, the interface room. Yeah, you cannot wear your close to the interface room. That's also totally like he gets. He's got a suit on. He goes to work, takes it off, puts on another suit them. Takes off to take off his ring at the anything. Identifying right, like they can't give any tells the guys like got like a spot on his tie jelly or something on his tie points out in like he gets chastised by Peter about Hello site. That as a possible excuse for while you're not getting promoted once in thirty years, you tell somebody on the spot. Kind of discipline. We demand here in strategy where where Peter's wife is a spot, if we're gonna, we're going to promote. You would have been like five or six times in thirty years. That's just an initiative. I know I love the show. I thought the show was really great because it's such a great combination of that Cold War spy feel there is this question of who's doing what, and trying to kill who, and who knows and who's been turned and all of that is in there. But you've got that science fictional element that lets you have that other layer, which is this question of like, who identity and who are you and are you fundamentally the same person regardless of what happens in your life? Are you the some of the choices you make and and it all gets kind of pushed together with some really fantastic performances. I wanna mention Baldwin played by Sarah, Sarah Yoko, sir, psoriatic. Oh, I don't have. She's Italian should never been in as far as I can tell him English language production before counterpart. She's great. And Jason's is fantastic.

01:05:32 Olivia Williams is very good, and Harry Lloyd is doing what he does best like, there's there's a bunch of and and you're staring at Harry Lloyd and trying to figure out where you know it's probably from game of thrones where he played vociferous just to our audience out there because like another of league, Eric or possibly the BBC Robin Hood series where he plays see, I know him from the Robin Hood series and the genie or twenty eleven movie because I've not watched a single episode of the human nature to parter of doctor who to where he was. He's in Manhattan Manhattan. Yeah, yes. He said, been in many things. Harry Lloyd is wolf hall soap before. Yes, it's all about Harry Lloyd here. Before we go. I wanted to just quickly go around and say, if you've got any kind of expectations for season two of counterpart, now's your time to to say anything else you'd like to say about the show and you might think it is going John. Well, I was so confused by the end of season one and surprised at how things went down the obvious place that I'm hoping season two goes to is to. Explore the fourth floor. Right? Because that's the last episode. Oh, fourth floor. Finally, going real something is and it's intriguing. But this is the kind of show that I can imagine putting that tees about the fourth Lord, the end of season one and not really talking about much in season two until maybe the end is do I hope that's not the case, but I could see something like that happening. So I'm looking forward to more of the Emily's Emily waking up and I'm looking forward to more of what we got. I think this is one of the high points of season one when the Howards comeback to each other after being separated for a while and have it out with themselves.

01:07:17 Like your life sucks, and I'm trying to make your life is stupid to you. Didn't even know your wife, but I didn't know. Such tension that seeing with him arguing with himself. I deal with a lot more of that as well. So I'm always very interested in this fictional prices, but I understand that's a precious resource that you can't just spend right. So I don't. You know, they shouldn't give into me and just explain the four. I need to know now and said, give me more scenes with people and their others yelling at each other. Dan, whereby I come at this from someone who loves Cold War, spied rooms. I know more spycraft and intrigue and political wrangling. I'm all in favor of that. I was pretty sure when we got through half the episodes and Emily was still in komo's like, all right, that's going to be the end to season one, isn't it? It's waking up and so seeing, like we know that she, this is the thing. I don't think we even talked about this, but she reached out to the other Howard, and that's probably what got hit by a car. In fact. Show we get that confirmed late in the second last episode or so. So there's, we don't really know entirely a ton about what her agenda was or why she reached out. We know that she felt like she could trust the other Howard, but like there's more background there in terms of how she was new about stuff. So I'm kind of curious to see that like built out a little bit more. I'm also interested in the fourth floor, but I think it really depends on how like we've got to season, how many seasons because yeah, John's right if they're gonna if they're spending this out for a couple more seasons than they need to dole that out a little more slowly. But yeah, I'm interested in all the spycraft in anymore. J K Simmons and J K Simmons is just delightful that the man, you know, after all these years of being a character actor feel like in so many things and he's shown huge range in versatility. This seems to me like a really like a nice feather in his cap for his career think.

01:09:16 So what about you? I would be. I mean, at the pace they're going, I be totally fine. If the show ended at the end of the second season, I feel like they use all of the time that they are given without needlessly decompressing things. And I would rather, they feel like they end it the right way rather than well, we're gonna another season. Why not? But I feel like there's so much unpack that without necessarily having to answer every question do every single thing. If I trust this creative team to do what's right for the show, so I I'm, it is rare that I find myself looking one of these ten episode season shows and feeling as one hundred percent secure with the way that the network in the creative team, retreating things. And that's, that's one of the things that I like most about it. There are other ten and thirteen episode season shows that really, really good, but that in some cases, magicians Jason where I get concerned or just get concerned. But the thing that I love about this show is that it's not it's not just that it is is good and crunchy it is good and crunchy end there is a diversity of really complex female characters, non white characters. I love Nazanin Bagna de Clare saga. She's so good. She is so good and she's not. She's. At first. I was like, oh, what are they setting up for? You know, typical, you know, scheming horrible Harbi is that is that the archetype that we're drawing from and she isn't that at all, and I loved getting to see all of that. And I love that we affectively got a standalone time travel episode that was effectively all about her.

01:11:02 And there's there's just so much. There's so much that they have yet to do that. You know, we've been told certain things about certain people's others, and I can't wait to Cold War spy thriller style. Like Dan, you know, and I both love have the will bulled over. Is there stuff that we've been told that isn't actually accurate? There's information that we've had withheld that's going to shock and surprise us in season two. I can't wait for season two. I wanted I wanted I wanted. I would put off all kinds of things to watch it. And one last little thing. I loved just moment to getting a few episodes of flu Laborde who is in pitch perfect to who is generally a hilarious comic relief type of guy. I, I love seeing German Austrian. You know that that that region of actors in in such in such representation just because you generally will see, you know, one German Geier this other person and it, it makes it feel like the kind of English language spy thriller. Stuff that I really like. But with a bunch of actors that I haven't seen thousand times. Yeah, I think brilliantly shot on location in Germany. Although the they did a great job hiding it, but the spell was broken for me when I when I read the interview with J K Simmons where he said that they offered the job and said they would probably gonna shoot it in Prague or somewhere in Poland because it would be cheaper. And he said, guys, I'll do your show, but I'm not leaving L A and they're like, okay, and so all the interiors apparently were shot in LA and only the exteriors. There are a lot of exteriors in Germany that were shot there, but the rest of the show is shot in LA, so good job, good job, everybody, Erica. What about you? What do you? What are your thoughts about next season?

01:12:50 I am kind of surprised at what I'm interested in seeing for next season, and that is because the basically the standalone time travel episode that mois mentioned. I really liked the Claire stuff in that episode, but I hated watching qu. Well, after he discovered what she was and just, I mean, that's the episode where it really hammers home that he is total crap at his job. He's just not going to any part of it at all. And you know he, he knows that he's working for like an organization that kind of holds the world together or the worlds apart. However, you wanna look at it and instead of doing the smart thing and actually like helping earth. No, he just decides to get drunk and not care. And then I was just getting more and more tense like my my shoulders were approaching my ears as I was watching that. And then we get to the point where he's just like, finally like, so how long have you been here? When did you get rid of her? And I was just like, what? What is wrong with you was so upsetting to me. And then what's say, all of reality may be spinning around me. I don't. And then because she's so good, both her character and her acting that character just did manage to kind of turn me around on that even just after seeing her strangle her other self to death, she manages to convince Quayle because he's such a frigging pushover.

01:14:20 So she so she manages to convince him that he needs to protect her and their daughter daughter who is named after her just from the other universe so rough and then so I was kind of iffy about how I felt about that. Like, I don't know. That's dumb when he smashes the car, I think he's trying to commit suicide and then find out. No, no, she's right. He was just giving them an alibi. He is fully on board with with team family. He's just really bad at doing that to get him kill himself, right. That could work, but I think it was. I think it was a ploy and. And I was I was like, all right, that's interesting. I'll be interested to see where this goes. And then at the very end when the other Howard who is now trapped on our side of sort of basically teams up with them, sits down at the bar and says, okay, listen, Alder isn't going to be a problem for free one of us anymore. We need to sort of stick together. I, that's what I'm interested in seeing the next season. I wanna see how those three characters interact. And I'm kind of like esker the rest of the world just want to watch. I just wanna watch those folks team up and and trying to make their lives be as awesome as possible. And of course, Emily when she wakes up, I want them to be a fearsome foursome.

01:15:41 All right. I'll point out Justin marks the creator. This show is not somebody with a lot of credits. He wrote the screenplay for the live action jungle book movie. He before that did a bunch of a bunch of stuff that didn't get produced or was pretty minor stuff he did. He was John. You'll be happy to know. He was hired at one point to read the screenplay for the shadow of the colossus movie that didn't get made goodness. Yeah, but I and jungle book. I don't know all I all I can tell you is this a really good show and he and his writing and directing team did a great job. And it seemed like also by the way, that in every other episode was either written by a woman directed by man or written by a man and directed by a woman which I thought was, and it's called counterpart and fascinating. Just fessing the people involved in this show and all there is AB Burg who is amazing. I love her so much. Yeah. So if you're still hearing you having watched counterpart, we've given away a lot of it. Go watch it. It's really great if you can find it because it's hard to find if you're. On the US where it's on stars and available on demand and all those things. Anyway, great stuff. I was so pleasantly surprised by this show ended up really loving it. It very rapidly after a couple of weeks became the show that I had to watch every every week when it came on, and I was sad when it was over, but it will be back again next year for another ten episodes, and I'm looking forward to that and until then I'd like to thank my guests for being here and talking about the first season of counterpart. John Syracuse, thank you very much. Can't wait until they use that Adele song next season.

01:17:17 Dan Morin. Thank you. I hope that I'm still here and have been replaced my my other by next time. Yeah. Well, who could tell you'll you'll be wearing a have different colored baseball cap moist to you. I'm thank you if Alexander pope's dog poops in the woods. What happens a bear? Finds it somebody picks it up probably and Eric enzyme. Thank you. I look forward to seeing Charlie Brown's parents revealed as management? Yes, that's right. They actually talk like that. You can't understand them. That's why you need the guy with the big ears, apparently. So and thanks everybody for listening to this episode of the comparable. We will see you next week. Put the Adele clip. Okay.